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Thread: what's The perfect army ?

  1. #51
    Hekatontarch Obsidian King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charliii View Post
    The perfect horsemen nuke would be about 1000 with fast transport ships and light ships.Impossible you meant? 1000 horses would take 3000 pop space, with the transports for that you would be over max pop already

    and the perfect defense would be 70 birems, 110 fast transport ships, 700 swordsmen, 700 archers and 300 hoplitesNot very balanced, neither perfect.
    Answers in bold.

  2. #52

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    i don't have any horsemen nukes so i wouldn't know, that was a guess, and i play hero world so u have more population!

  3. #53
    Hoplite FlareMK5's Avatar
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    Well, I remember (I think I remember) this one city I had a nice land nuke, it went like this;

    600 slingers,
    300 horsemen,
    20 cats,
    72 transports, all of these take up 2304 population, and all the buildings (Being maxed out) take up 1144, and that's with Thermal baths and the Tower added, so then we work out the total farm population (+Plow and thermal baths) which is 3520 I believe, so now we add the total building population and units population which is 2304+ 1144 = 3448, so now we take that away from the total farm space; 3520 - 3448 = 72, that 72 is the free population..So I guess I've gotten the correct numbers for my old land nuke wrong, but yea, you get the idea. Just build 7 Lightships with them and so you can have some support with those transports.

    There's also manticore city nukes that don't require any ships to transport them and you can build about 50 of those in a city, granted you researched the right things, built all the buildings to max and have a tower and thermal baths built also.

    Then, there's those pesky lightship cities, which consist of 200 lightships on average, I normally put archers in those cities with the remaining population though. I also replace the thermal baths with a lighthouse, but if you wanna keep the thermal baths, then you could build about 210 lightships in one city.
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  4. #54
    Forum Instigator Hekatontarch SGT Slaughter's Avatar
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    For Revolt worlds

    you should have 4 types of cities. All with baths and front line cities with towers. No other special building worth 60 pop. No city should be maxed out in points, thats for simmers.

    LS City- Light ships only. Lowest level barracks.
    Bireme city- same as above only with Biremes
    Offensive troop city- whatever nuke you want, lvl 20 harbor, 30-50 LS with break through researched, chariots not needed here but cats are a must.
    Defensive troop city- A balance of swords, archers, and chariots. Some myths can be used. Hops not needed.

    NEVER mix a city with off and def unless you have less than 3 cities total. I saw 1 version say 10 biremes in a troop city, why? Thats wasting 80 pop for the stopping power of a feather pillow.

    Triremes and fireships shouldnt ever be researched. Trirs are 16 pop and slow, they cant attack or defend well. Totally useless, no top player uses them.
    Fireships are simply for noobs. Super slow with no purpose but to kill LS AFTER the city has been attacked. Easily countered by attacking with biremes. You cant snipe a CS wave nor kill the LS in a CS wave. Much easier to let the LS return home and sink them in their harbor. Fireships are for victims not killers!
    Slow transports should only be used in permanent support cities, otherwise use fast TPs.

    Myth cities- Since it takes so long to build a myth nuke, build LS with the extra resources with the extra pop. LS are easy to kill off when you need pop and provide the best chance of high BP ratio. Myths cities are important and easier to build in hero worlds since you can farm favor.

    Thats my 2 cents.

  5. #55
    Strategos Pythagorus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Slaughter View Post
    For Revolt worlds

    you should have 4 types of cities. All with baths and front line cities with towers way to be creative :P but i guess if you're going to have a set plan that's not a bad one

    LS City- Light ships only. Lowest level barracks.
    Bireme city- same as above only with Biremes
    Offensive troop city- whatever nuke you want, lvl 20 harbor, 30-50 LS with break through researched lolwut!? 30-50LS is prob ok if you're on the rim or fighting njubs, but it's pretty low if your enemy is half decent. the reason it's low is because breakthrough at the moment is a horrible research which i would never use , chariots not needed here but cats are a must.
    Defensive troop city- A balance of swords, archers, and chariots a balance of sword, archers and hoplites actually has a higher total defence. this is because hoplites are weakest in blunt instead of in sharp like chariots, so this is complimented by more swords instead of archers. swords have more total defence than archers, so bob's your uncle!.
    my opinions in red the rest i agree with
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  6. #56
    Forum Instigator Hekatontarch SGT Slaughter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythagorus View Post
    my opinions in red the rest i agree with
    way to be creative but i guess if you're going to have a set plan that's not a bad one
    What building is worth 60 pop other than bath and tower? Lighthouse has no benefit if you time attacks. Oracle, lol. Merchants shop, farm players for resources. Statues help some, but I'd rather have the farm spaces. Fancy cities dont win wars

    lolwut!? 30-50LS is prob ok if you're on the rim or fighting njubs, but it's pretty low if your enemy is half decent. the reason it's low is because breakthrough at the moment is a horrible research which i would never use
    Sounds like you dont time LS nukes in front of your troop waves. More LS means smaller troop nuke. If your timing is tight, your LS will rarely see action so less is better. But if they do see action, Id rather lose a few more LS than transports full of troops. If you have less than 10-15 cities, I agree, breakthrough isnt as necessary.

    a balance of sword, archers and hoplites actually has a higher total defence. this is because hoplites are weakest in blunt instead of in sharp like chariots, so this is complimented by more swords instead of archers. swords have more total defence than archers, so bob's your uncle!.
    You mean Hops are weakest against ranged, the most common nuke. Even sharp and blunt nukes have cats, a ranged unit. Militia are best against sharp, so there's a bonus there. Chariots can also be used in farming. Sharp nukes are probably the rarest anyways. If you have a def city supporting your sharp nuke city, you would want chariots not a bunch of hops. I cant think of a reason to have Hops in defense and Bob is my aunt

  7. #57
    Strategos Pythagorus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Slaughter View Post
    What building is worth 60 pop other than bath and tower? Lighthouse has no benefit if you time attacks. Oracle, lol. Merchants shop, farm players for resources. Statues help some, but I'd rather have the farm spaces. Fancy cities dont win wars
    lighthouse can be handy when you need to keep a low TT on a CS. that's only really useful/needed against good players though. on the right side i prefer to build nothing and keep the 60 population instead i think the point i was trying to make though is not to have a set rule of what to build, and to build (or not build) whatever seems necessary. anyway, i mainly agree with you on that point i'll leave it at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Slaughter View Post
    Sounds like you dont time LS nukes in front of your troop waves. More LS means smaller troop nuke. If your timing is tight, your LS will rarely see action so less is better. But if they do see action, Id rather lose a few more LS than transports full of troops. If you have less than 10-15 cities, I agree, breakthrough isnt as necessary.
    you cut me deep the thing is, even if you time LS nukes there's always 50/50 chance that your opponent will still be able to time biremes inbetween your waves (unless you're only attacking noobs). with a 80-100LS escort i'll still squeeze at least 1.2k olu's into a nuke, which performs almost as well as 1.5k or 1.6k on a per population basis. you also have the added benefit of being able to send your land nukes away on BP runs every night without losing half of your transports every time you find a half-decent player not sleeping, and they can also be extra help in siege-busting (for conquest worlds). anyway, i guess the bottom line is that breakthrough will probably work fine against noobs, but personally i'm VERY happy when i get attacked with breakthrough

    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Slaughter View Post
    You mean Hops are weakest against ranged, the most common nuke. Even sharp and blunt nukes have cats, a ranged unit. Militia are best against sharp, so there's a bonus there. Chariots can also be used in farming. Sharp nukes are probably the rarest anyways. If you have a def city supporting your sharp nuke city, you would want chariots not a bunch of hops. I cant think of a reason to have Hops in defense and Bob is my aunt
    lol, yes i meant range anyway, here's a reason

    balanced defence with chariots:
    258 swords / 366 archers / 124 chariots
    = 1120 population @ 42.4 total defence per pop

    balanced def with hops
    490 swords / 189 archers / 441 hops
    = 1120 population @ 44.6 total defence per pop

    so in that relatively small defence, you are sacrificing well over 2k total defence using chariots instead of hops. and hops being weak against range makes no difference because both of the above defences are balanced against all attack types. but yeah, if you like chariots then stick with that
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  8. #58
    Forum Instigator Hekatontarch SGT Slaughter's Avatar
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    Im starting to see a condescending trend here.

    prob ok if you're on the rim or fighting njubs, but it's pretty low if your enemy is half decent.
    that's only really useful/needed against good players though.
    (unless you're only attacking noobs)
    every time you find a half-decent player not sleeping
    i guess the bottom line is that breakthrough will probably work fine against noobs
    If I was a 3yr vet who has never lost a city and top 5 attacker/top 20 defender on 2 worlds, I might be offended. However, I took the liberty to check your stats. I have to wonder what a person with those stats would consider a noob? Anyways...

    One day you will notice slingers are the main attacking units. Stone is always in abundance combined with the highest attack value, slingers are by far the common attack wave. Cats are another dangerous ranged unit. I wouldnt use either defenses you posted. By balanced I mean 400 swords, 300 archers, 105 chariots using your 1120 pop example. No need to prepare for sharp nukes equally as much for slinger nukes, since they are more rare. If you see sharps being used in the area, adjust accordingly like any other nuke.

    Of course the best def is offense. If you farm your neighbors, they will turtle up. Thus sending longer ranged attacks (if they have the nerve) giving you time to stack the city.

    Sending 80-100 LS with 1200 troops? Thats 2000~2200 pop not including 300 pop for transports. Even if thats your combination, its ok against biremes and ok sized nuke. If someone slips 300 BIs in front of your 100 LS attack wave, you lose 31 out of 75 transports. With Breakthrough on 50 LS and 100 trans, I lose the same 31 transports. So I would have 1104 troops hitting the beach compared to your 704. You lose 50 more LS too. If you time it right and put a couple LS nukes sprinkled between troop waves you won't need the LS, thus making LS overkill senseless.

    Now if you are send troop waves out randomly overnight unescorted, well yeah it would be recommended. However, thats a noob move. If you send them 4 hrs out to get 8hrs of sleep, you can expect your troops swimming. If you send them 1-3 hrs away, they can dodge the LS and time their LS right behind your returning LS. Never BP hunt while sleeping. Send your units out overnight to inactives or ghost. The whole point is to keep them safe so you can use them in OPs.

  9. #59
    Strategos Pythagorus's Avatar
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    sure, i'm a noob who has no idea what he's talking about, or can't be bothered to argue. one of the two. (or both of the two?)

    i've always said there are a thousand ways to play grepo, so i'm perfectly happy for you to stick with your way and i'll stick to my noobish way
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  10. #60
    Hipparchus ImPreeetySure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty16 View Post
    . Swordsmen are the strongest non-mythical land defender per population & they are very inexpensive.
    Only against slingers. A city full of swordsman can easily be conquered by a hoplite nuke. Their high defense per pop is against slingers (blunt attack) and their weakness is sharp (Hoplites). Hence why you need a balanced defense, their should be approx 500 sword, 200, archer and 500 hoplites. So that you can take on the two common nukes horse/sling and have another smaller defense for the hoplite nuke.
    My god. These forums are filth

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