War Declaration!

[DeletedUser]

IoA is a top-5 alliance. These alliances can and should stand on their own. DoA and IoA should take acknowledgement of being tied to each entirely off of their pages if, as was suggested by FortyFour:

They are autonomous and exist wholly to acomplish the misison that Badnight and I set out for it upon its creation. We do not force them to join in our wars. They are a "training" alliance.

As the IoA page says:

We are the training wing of the Disciples of Ares and will honour any agreements and alliances held by DoA.

What you have done here is created a double-standard and a contradictory statement. If IoA honors all of DoA's agreements, we can assume they honor their wars as well. If not, well gee-golly - that changes the game all together. I guess these two alliance have nothing to do with each other, whatsoever.

LoC has a training alliance, and the obligation of having a training alliance is taking those players under your wing. It is the simple. If you take people under your wing, and then feed them to the wolves, what motivation could they possibly have to help you?

You are either part of an alliance family, or you are merely allies. Which are two different things. Losing one of Nessie players is the same losing one of my own.

Smaller players need guidance, if your guidance is "learn to swim on your own, I'm gonna throw you in the deep end when you are five" than that is a joke.

Since IoA page says they will honor all pacts with DoA - I can only assume they are treated as the same alliance, as such, attacking them is the same as attacking DoA.

All this propaganda is ridiculous and absurd and tiring.

 

[DeletedUser]

Well put Grom. For those that want an idea of the spread need only look at the maps provided Xarandir in another thread. It's a common mistake to look at the sides and think 'x' is bigger than 'y' and therefore 'x' must win when in reality the majority of 'x' is two oceans away

According to Xarandir current map TFP frontline is in O64(not many but some),075,O76,while frontline DoA are in O64,65,66 now that not two oceans away is it.


@badnight,I;m not going through the forums looking for post only by you,it just happens your are the ones that i can disprove

 

[DeletedUser]

According to Xarandir current map TFP frontline is in O64(not many but some),075,O76,while frontline DoA are in O64,65,66 now that not two oceans away is it.


@badnight,I;m not going through the forums looking for post only by you,it just happens your are the ones that i can disprove

Majority as in meaning the core which in DoA is happens to be 55 so yea, just as per-say that i have city in 76 but with some members being in 83 thats all im saying

 

[DeletedUser]

Majority as in meaning the core which in DoA is happens to be 55 so yea, just as per-say that i have city in 76 but with some members being in 83 thats all im saying

Points Cities
O65 1 Disciples of Ares 1607156 157 10237
O55 3 Disciples of Ares 1353435 124 10915
O64 1 Disciples of Ares 1745129 170 10265
066 1Disciples of Ares 1618478 155 10442

Dictionary.Com says majority is the greater part or number; the number larger than half the total ( opposed to minority): the majority of the population.

Since Majority =Core wouldn't O64 be the core of DoA? and ocean 75 is defantley the core of TFP

 

[DeletedUser]

Nwinder,

Your taking part in the PNP and the absurdness of it by posting your replies. Pot-stirring counts as "taking part in"

Let me make this clear so that you can't say I'm saying this or that.

1. IOA is our training alliance
2. we do our utmost to defend IOA whenever we can and HAVE on many occasions, but they do a good job of that on their own for the most part.
3. "I" don't train IOA, Badnight and his leaders handle that and they do a fine job of it. I owe much of our success to his abilities in doing so.

We are not throwing anyone to the "wolves". We do our best to help those isolated IOA members in 86 defend their towns. Obviously to some degree we have failed since some of the towns were taken, but we will continue to help them to the best of our ability. We have always assisted any IOA player when they needed help in any way and we could rpovide it. We will continue to do so.

My entire point of the previous post, which you so subtely ignored, was that to compare conquests of someone's training alliance to conquets of full members when BOTH alliances have training divisions is in a word, sad.
But perhaps if 14 towns which belonged to members of TFP are in fact equal to 14 IOA towns then I have made a mistake in attempting to equate the difference. Ok I'll concede to the possibility that our training division members are in fact equal in quality to the members of TFP. Fair enough.


When I stated that that they were "autonomus", I perhaps used the wrong wordage. Obviously they are connected to us. I have full faith that Badnight will handle IOA without my constant intervention in their micro management. Having him as their leader is a luxury that I have enjoyed and one that I appreciate greatly.

I don't expect them to start running opps on TFP simply because we are at war with TFP. They obviously consider anyone an enemy that we consider an enemy, but the degree of their aggression would be handled per their current sitaution and is left up to Badnight to decide. How badnight accomplishes their training is totally up to him. So far I've never been dissaponited in a IOA member that has joined DOA. That's all I can ever ask for and all that I ever will.

forty

 

[DeletedUser]

Oh dear, nwinder obviously feel unloved because noone is talking about LoC.

Autonomous is exactly the right word. We run IoA as a proving ground and while I can and do supply recruits to DoA it is on our terms and in agreement with. In the meantime we run without interference from DoA although I often consult with them.

Throwing to the wolves? Feel free to ask IoA players if they feel that way and I promise you most appreciate the efforts we make on their behalf. Remote players by their very nature are difficult to support (I look forward to watching LoC support their O46 additions) and they were given instructions on the best way forward. Those who paid attention have lasted well and those who didn't got hammered. This is a rerun of what happend in O25 and even there you failed to clear IoA out for almost a month. A training alliance lives to learn and we learn our best lessons from mistakes not our success. Nwinder, I genuinely pity your players in LoCNess if you simply view them as a spare leg for LoC to be ordered around as you see fit.

TFP general have capable players who are focusing on the easier closer targets first and while they do our friends move closer.

Apolloa, it's a pity you removed your signature as it demonstrated the quality of PL superbly.

 

[DeletedUser]

Points Cities
O65 1 Disciples of Ares 1607156 157 10237
O55 3 Disciples of Ares 1353435 124 10915
O64 1 Disciples of Ares 1745129 170 10265
066 1Disciples of Ares 1618478 155 10442

Dictionary.Com says majority is the greater part or number; the number larger than half the total ( opposed to minority): the majority of the population.

Since Majority =Core wouldn't O64 be the core of DoA? and ocean 75 is defantley the core of TFP

core1    
[kawr, kohr]
noun, verb, cored, cor·ing.
–noun

2.
the central, innermost, or most essential part of anything.

further more front-line   
[fruhnt-lahyn]
–adjective
1.
located or designed to be used at a military front line: a front-line ambulance helicopter.
2.
of, pertaining to, or involving the forefront in any action, activity, or field: a front-line TV reporter.
3.
highly experienced or proficient in the performance of one's duties.

same website dictionary.com

 

[DeletedUser]

Fortyfour, lots to say, so bear it out with me.

First and foremost, I casually ignored nothing, akin to you casually ignoring, in my post, the fact that I stated that IoA is our #4 alliance, an alliance with those ranks should not be considered weaker than any alliance in the top-12. We are much smaller than The Huns or DoA and as you (to a lesser extent) and The Huns (to a greater extent) have learned that it is not easy to take a village from us at all. But, to make the point even louder, EotD is much smaller than The Huns or DoA, and it has been very difficult for you guys or The Huns to take a village from them. In fact, of the Huns/DoA alliance (leaving IoA out, if you will) EotD are merely 10 times smaller than you (10.3 really). Of the DoA/IoA/Huns alliance and the EotD and LoC alliance, you guys are 3.68 times larger than us. Where as IoA is merely 6% smaller than TFP. Even though we have had a ton of conversations about numbers not mattering, to an extent they do. And we all know that.

So to call them weaker is absurd. I was stating the comments about IoA being weaker are absurd, not the PNP. Now, looking at the map, IoA has a natural weakness, they are spread thin throughout the entire server, whereas The Huns, DoA, TFP, LoC, EotD, and even LoC-Ness have a strong central core. Again, that is the nature of the game with a training alliance.

And even if they are weaker, how is it not counted when people go after the weak? The history of war is defined by people attacking the weak. In nature, it is defined by going after the weak. A group of lioness' do not hunt and kill the largest, studliest, manliest stag in the wildebeest herd, the go after the poor, sickly and elderly. They want a meal and they want it fast.

In planning for war, no one says "the enemy is strongest here, that is where we should attack". Instead they would do something akin to taking weaker areas around the fortress, surrounding it and then attacking.

As IoA is part of the war, whether you wanted them to be or not, and as they stand on your side, they are counted in the loss. Even at the battle of Thermoplylae, we might only remember 300 spartan's dying, but history counts the 1000-4000 other Greeks who died on that day as well. Perhaps we could say that DoA is are the Spartans and IoA are the Peloponnesians, but nevertheless, they are still counted in the losses.

Further, you can try to be cheeky about your training members being just as strong as TFP members, but truth be told, we both know they are not. If for no other reason than your training alliance does not have a strong core and as was stated earlier TFP does not go after DoA towns because they know they are stacked with defense (excuse me for not grabbing the quote, the topic is large and have other things to do, I know I should have grabbed the exact wording, but I failed to do so). Where is the defense in those IoA towns?

If they are so easy to grab and the DoA towns are not, wouldn't it make sense for DoA to provide aid to the IoA towns (knowing that DoA can more easily stand to lose a few towns as players have a larger pool of towns). If someone with 25 towns loses a village, no big deal, if someone with 2 towns loses a village - that's a big deal to that person.

By not providing aid to the players, you were throwing them to the wolves. It is that simple. The fact that IoA towns are easier to take, as I said earlier, proves it.

At the end of the day, regardless of whether you agree with me or not, the point stands that those lost IoA cities are counted in your loss.

 

[DeletedUser]

Your still playing with semantics.

There is a huge difference in Elite alliances and training alliances and you know it, stop playing dumb. Even counting any IOA losses we are still winning by a large margin and will continue to do so. Not that it is any of your conern, but I've already stated that we do and have sent defense to those towns that are vulnerable but we both know its more complicated then that. Perhaps you should spend your extra time telling TFP how to defend their own towns?

For those who are unaware, (Nwinder is not one of them) Defense is not just numbers, Defense consists of..

Knowing when to dodge when NOT to dodge
Knowing when an attack is a CS and when it is a fake
Knowing how to hide offensive troops
knowing how to time those hidden offensive troops to take out a CS the split second it lands
and many other things

DOA cities are not stacked with defense nor do they have to be to avoid getting conquested. I know you know more about defending then that. Your just simply playing the devils advocate. Fair enough, I'll not debate this particular topic any further. The horse beating is bordering on criminal.

That says all that needs to be said about the current state of the conflict.

forty

 

[DeletedUser]

I really fail to understand how I am just playing with semantics. Am I just playing devil's advocate, maybe. But the fact remains (based on your last dipstick) it is 2:1 in your favor, not 14:1.

To my count DoA has conquered cities from 4 players in TFP.

For all any of us know, they are all players who have essentially gone inactive. IoA has a bad habit of using their (or yours or The Huns) spy in our alliance (or in EotD or Nessie) to determine our inactives and attempt to get to them first. I would easily assume if IoA engages in such behavior so does DoA.

And before any refutes the spy statement (which they will and I am fine with) the following can be used as near-proof. Such as posting penguin1964, who quit the game and was still active (cities still growing) was quiting in the forums, only to find 2 days later that IoA was hitting all of his cities and conquering them (even Badnight got one of those cities) even though none of us ever get attacked by IoA (aside from perhaps joy [sorry you have to go through that messy, sloppy, nightmare])

Just saying man, just saying...

 

[DeletedUser]

nwinder, my friend,

Fortyfourt stated that we try to help IoA but sometimes its very hard. Some players are very far away, like in oc86. Even for me its a long trip. While their enemies are just around the corner. These towns are surounded by many TFP big players, isolated and far away from the rest of IoA and DoA. They get help but its hard to defend those positions. Still they do great work as some of them being in the training alliance, defend against constant everyday attacks made by TFP top guns. Some of them defend since the beginning of this war, being attacked every single day.

What we try to say is that in this case inability to take these "easiest targets" shows TFP weaknes. IoA is a part of family and they count as our loses but its hard to give credit to the enemy for beating them.

Ask me how many PL guys I have around myself, or how many smaller TFP players. I ignore them, going for big shots and straight into their territory. I dont care much about those little guys with their fat cities left behind. Its a weaknes to target cities, not players. Shows lack of understanding basic tactics and war in general.


And please, stop with all these digits!!! Comparing sizes whole time. How many times people have to repeat that points dont matter?! Why do you keep mentioning that? Are you some sort of noob who cant see anything except statistics or you use them for your own PnP favour?

I see many contradictions in your speach:
- "Where as IoA is merely 6% smaller than TFP. Even though we have had a ton of conversations about numbers not mattering, to an extent they do. And we all know that."

- "So to call them weaker is absurd."
- "I was stating the comments about IoA being weaker are absurd"

- "And even if they are weaker[...]

- "Further, you can try to be cheeky about your training members being just as strong as TFP members, but truth be told, we both know they are not. "

So are they weaker or not!? - make your mind nwinder. You change your statements as it fits you. You contradict yourself in every next paragraph...

I will tell you what I think about these 2 alliances:
-IoA is spread and those who are attacked are far away from the rest of IoA or DoA players;
-IoA is mostly for players still learning the game, while TFP supposed to be for those who know how to play;
-TFP claims they are brave and seek for glory- Im sorry there is no glory nor bravery in beating members of a training alliance isolated from the rest of group.
- Points dont matter at all. We know what happened to LoA East, Middle and West, what happened to Spartan Elite or other MRAs. IoA is not MRA per se but as a training alliance give chance to many more players than a normal alliance would - its their mission, to find and train good players and it makes them weaker than other alliances which control their core and keep only strong capable players. Therefore Pergamum would easly stop IoA invasion, EotD can defend very well for long time as well. IoA as a traning alliance doesnt stick to the same territorial and membership tactics as other strong alliances and therefore must be weaker from that point of view. Their players might be very good but when they prove themself, then most of them are taken to DoA, leaving IoA weaker.
So IoA per definition is weaker (in its structure) than other alliances in top 12. Their high rank is due to many members and points, but they all are their to learn the game.

Its very simple but you like to twist things in your favour nwinder.

The last thing, you suggest we took inactive players. Instead of making empty claims, maybe spend an extra 5 minutes checking these players, will you? Click on their names in grepostats and you will see. If you need prove (which I truely believe you dont want to see) I can PM reports to you showing how they were defending before we took their cities.
You will save some space on this forum and our time. Check if these guys we took cities from were inactive? I picked them becasue of their location and importance (few of them were agressive or 1 has a leading role).

PS that city we lost - everyone knows that rev is leaving the game and has almost empty cities as he suicided his troops on us. The only city they took from DoA is from the guy who was leaving the game and emptied his cities lol
TFP can jump now on these cities I dont care, as I said, by taking cities you dont win the war - by taking them away from active and agressive players you do. Something which TFP still has to learn, as they dont really understand what war is about...

@Apoll0911
Some of the DoA members are far away from TFP but I was speaking about majority of The Huns and IoA players who are listed by many of you after DoA in one simplifying sentence. If you look at the maps you will see that most of them are far away from TFP.
It doesnt matter how good The Huns are or how many strong players they have - they cant do much if their CS is 48+ hrs away. If they send their attacks they usually reach the target after many mnay hours giving plenty of time to prepare - this is disadvantage, which can block the best alliance. Even not that great alliance can stop great one, if they are separated by many oceans.
Dont forget that The Huns have other wars at the moment, the same is tru to DoA. TFP is not the only front line, so by comparing totall number of DoA and The Huns against TFP you make mistake. By comparing TH+DoA vs TFP+LoC+EotD would get you closer to the reality.

Re the core thing - Oc65 is the ocean which DoA started to control after war against BoM, so its not their core. Their veterans are in other oceans located closer to the center of the map.

 

[DeletedUser]

GROM

I would rather you not refer to me as your friend, maybe as your buddy or pal...but we are surely not friends. Friends is not a term to use lightly.

Typically, when people make an argument, they pose the other side of the argument, buddy. It is called "doing the right thing". While I do not agree IoA is weaker - my point was that even if they ARE weaker - it doesn't matter. They still count as a loss.

I'll repeat that, so you can't ignore it, I was looking at both sides of the argument.

Just as I did when looking at if IoA were part of the alliance family or not. I looked at both sides. You might not agree with either - but, unlike you, I tend not to just share "my opinion" and assume that everyone will take it for fact.

I am never open to sharing my real opinions on this forum, and never will (except in very, very, very limited situations - mostly with respectable people)

The players are not inactive. I took the time to look. That being said, it is still a valid point buddy. As you so often say, STOP WITH THE NUMBERS.

Not everyone can be the defensive mastermind that TicTac is, that being said, because you prey on 4 players in an alliance does not mean the entire alliance is weak. If you would have taken 14 cities, from 14 players, that would send a different message. For all I know, or anyone else does, those four players were not the same calibur as the rest of the alliance. And as most leaders of most alliances know, we don't have the time to farm 24/7 on 25 villages. We are naturally going to be weaker than other players.

"Its very simple but you like to twist things in your favour nwinder." Is that not exactly what you are doing right now and typically do? As well as Fortyfour, badnight, and everyone else. Don't we all like to twist things in our favor? I think so.

And to badnight, I don't care about LoC. I have a vested interested in TFP winning this war. As a public figure of the movement against The Golden Horde, I will always have a vested interest in alliances standing against TGH doing well.

It is a pretty darn easy concept to understand.

I'll just sit back and wait and see if you can.

(keep in mind, nothing was personal when talking to fortyfour - but when grom and badnight start typing on the keyboard, they can't help but stoop down to a lower level - and sometimes you have to get in the mud with them. Oh, that is a real opinion. I just went ahead and deleted most of what I typed here.)

 

[DeletedUser]

Dear Foe, (better mr touchy?)

I would like to see when I got personal with you in this thread nwinder - I discuss things in the same way as you. Well almost, I didnt try to offend you by saying that I "have to get in the mud with" you to be able to talk... Does this remind you our previous conversation? You say I step down to low level and sit in mud - thats very...not low, not muddy... - contradictions.

re the thing about "looking at both sides", I must have misunderstood then your clear statement:

Further, you can try to be cheeky about your training members being just as strong as TFP members, but truth be told, we both know they are not.

This looks to me like a statement of the fact, not "consideration of both sides".

Then you say

While I do not agree IoA is weaker

CONTRADICTIONS - YOU SAY "YES" AND "NO" ON THE SAME PAGE, WHICH PUT ALL YOUR OPINIONS INTO A BIN.

Re cities we took - its becoming boring. Now you agree they were not inactive and actually worth something but not that much - still its not enough... Whatever we do or say it will be not enough for you. Taking leaders city is not enough. I thought his team would protect him.

You have very specific role in this discussion - you try to make people believe that we are going nowhere with our war against TFP and are actually volnurable and weak...there are many of us and few of you, or any that kind of nonsense.

Taking 14 cities deosnt mean we won the war, it means we are the winning/dominating side. Taking 14 cities after a week and after being suddenly attacked by TFP (which you said is strong and have many good players) is something you cant underestimate - it shows that DoA is stronger, not in numbers but quality.

4 players... I think there were more players but even if...omg I dont know why I explain things you obviously twist...? but ok , you said:

In planning for war, no one says "the enemy is strongest here, that is where we should attack". Instead they would do something akin to taking weaker areas around the fortress, surrounding it and then attacking.

So by concentrating fire on fewer key players we did what a good tactitian would do. If we attacked 14 players we would not take that many cities.

So by doing that we showed again, that we are better in quality as we can take many cities at the same time from few active players. Where was their good team at that time? Defending them? Did they leave them for wolves? No - we were just quicker, better organised more efficient. Which we cant say about TFP team which was preparing for attacks for weeks, attacked by surprise and got nowhere near 14 cities.

 

[DeletedUser]

Tegi wanders into thread.

Tegi reads Tiberius the brave's comments

Tegi observes the amount of Tiberius the brave's time spent mouthing off in the forum = 100%, the amount of time Tiberius the brave's spent backing up words with action = 0%

Tegi jumps back on his yak and departs thread.

 

[DeletedUser]

Tegi wanders into thread.

Tegi reads Tiberius the brave's comments

Tegi observes the amount of Tiberius the brave's time spent mouthing off in the forum = 100%, the amount of time Tiberius the brave's spent backing up words with action = 0%

Tegi jumps back on his yak and departs thread.

lol, short and accurate
kudos

 

[DeletedUser]

Whilst the trash talking added an ingredient that was missing from the thread, I am glad to see we are back to the subject of war.

I don't purpose to to argue that the DoA has not gotten the better of TFP in the war thus far and whilst I except some of the 14 cities mention have belonged to active TFP members, the majority have belonged to members who were not as active as I/TFP believed. And whilst I cannot say I would've preferred not to lose any cities, the fact is, our active and able members (which is the majority of TFP) are dealing with DoA, TH, Asylum and IR's attacks with relative ease.

As several players mentioned, taking IoA cities is not something TFP will stop doing or should stop doing. DoA/IoA are very much 1 alliance and if they are not, they certainly conduct themselves if they are. When the RM merge was managed by DoA and Forty, several RM members went into IoA, increasing there strength even further.

Whilst I accept TH and DoA are in a war with EoTD and LoC, I would suggest that does not compare to TFP being attacked by Asylum, TH, DOA and to a lesser extent, IoA and IR. I would suggest this purely because of the size of TH/DoA compared to TFP. Those 2 alliance are twice the size of our alliance and are in much closer proximity to us.

The 1 thing I can say, this war has made a game that was getting boring very exciting and now I have the CP for city 26, I am looking forward to taking my first DoA city

 

[DeletedUser]

Well said H1

And

@ Tegi

Priceless! HAHA

Where did you get that fine specimen of a Yak?

 

[DeletedUser]

Nice first post Tegi

 

[DeletedUser]

yay!someone finally mentioned us!

 

[DeletedUser]

Firstly the conquests were not all on active players! Bushell (2 cities conquested, 3rd on the way) had lost interest in the game and could not be concidered an active player. Trust me i live with the guy.

Secondly i feel that many of the posts made on this thread have been extremely petty (especially by some of the so called "elite").

Thirdly i genuinely have no idea what possesed Tibs to say the things he said, not only did he make TFP look weak but also he seems to have almost single handedly alienated TFP from the rest of the server.

Also the comments made earlier (that nwinder touched on) about TFP "picking on" IoA are ridiculous, IoA/TFP have similar points, IoA clearly have some easier targets than DoA to expand TFP quickly and they are clearly part of this war so i see no issue.
I think the pettiness of this debate has been funny and the thought that any of the taunts will have any affect on any player is just daft.
The s**t between tibs and his accused is rediculous and i feel slightly ashamed to know that this is one of our leaders, not that i think much more of Scar and G.R.O.M from the evidence of this thread.

This thread has encouraged me as a member of the Phoenix alliances as i know the strength we have and that the words said here (excluding tibs) will only encourage and fortify the wills of all our members!

This is a game