Euthanasia - Right or Wrong?

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DeletedUser

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Achilles aren't you over 70? :D

As for your comment regarding Stephen Hawking, I believe everyone contributes to society in their own way. You can't really take someone away and kill them, vegetable or not vegetable.

That's what I meant in my last post, it's difficult to determine whether or not someone is contributing. And were compulsory euthanasia to be in effect, who decides whether someone lives or dies?

I think the matter of compulsory euthanasia is entirely separate from the subject of euthanasia itself.. Maybe worthy of it's own thread? Maybe not.
 

DeletedUser345

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Achilles aren't you over 70? :D

Only 14 i'm afraid, but i find 15 in a month sounds older ;)

As for your comment regarding Stephen Hawking, I believe everyone contributes to society in their own way. You can't really take someone away and kill them, vegetable or not vegetable.

Well in disagreement if you are a vegetable you can't contribute to society thats pretty much a fact surely, maybe if you explained further on what you mean by contirbute in their own way then i could answer better.
 

DeletedUser345

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That's what I meant in my last post, it's difficult to determine whether or not someone is contributing. And were compulsory euthanasia to be in effect, who decides whether someone lives or dies?

In some cases there would be grey areas but most of the time it should be clear cut. You can determine if someone is contributing if they help out in the communtiy run clubs for small children, run youth clubs etc. etc. Meanwhile someone who doesnt contribute is someone who stays in msot of the time only is seen when they go shopping etc.
 

DeletedUser

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Only 14 i'm afraid, but i find 15 in a month sounds older ;)



Well in disagreement if you are a vegetable you can't contribute to society thats pretty much a fact surely, maybe if you explained further on what you mean by contirbute in their own way then i could answer better.


Oh haha, fair play :p

I mean contribute as in build relationships. Perhaps society is the wrong word, but they contribute to their families and local communities in their own way. I believe that every person is loved by someone, and to take them away under any circumstances whatsoever I believe is unfair.
 

DeletedUser

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In some cases there would be grey areas but most of the time it should be clear cut. You can determine if someone is contributing if they help out in the communtiy run clubs for small children, run youth clubs etc. etc. Meanwhile someone who doesnt contribute is someone who stays in msot of the time only is seen when they go shopping etc.

That person who stays at home most of the time may contribute too, in their own way. For example, someone may spend most of their time at home because they work from home, and work full-time. Would they be considered for compulsory euthanasia, just because they do not run community clubs?
 

DeletedUser345

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Oh haha, fair play :p

I mean contribute as in build relationships. Perhaps society is the wrong word, but they contribute to their families and local communities in their own way. I believe that every person is loved by someone, and to take them away under any circumstances whatsoever I believe is unfair.

But their familys should realise that they are either going to go very soon anyway, that it is good for the person themselves (in some cases) or that it is neccessary for soceity as a whole. Also people would adapt perhaps there might eb some fuss at the beginning but after a year people would come to accept it and treat it as the norm.
 

DeletedUser

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Oi, if my family members were around, I would be in extreme pain and suffering with very little to no chance of recovery. I guess that would make me a candidate for euthanasia aye?

But if that were the case would you really want them to handle your Euthanasia? Don't give them the pleasure. I'm sure you'd have other methods available.

What if a person is involved in an accident and enters into a vegetative state, without any prior discussion of Euthanasia. Would they have to remain in that state, or would the power to make the decision fall to close family members, despite the absence of any meetings/documentation giving them the right to make such a decision?

My issue with the argument that euthanasia should primarily be available for those in a vegetative/unresponsive state is that very few people expect to be in such a state, or make preparations for if it happens. As such, they wouldn't be able to take advantage of any euthanasia services available, because of the safeguards in place to protect them.

I agree with everything you said, which raises a major problem with the safeguard I envisioned although I did so assuming that one would make such preparations. You could even roll it out as some sort of hospital health care plan or as a section in your Will to make it pseudo-compulsory to combat that situation as maybe even some advertising (although that'd be quite grim "make preparations to get your family members to pull the plug, because you might become a vegetable tomorrow!").

All in all, I felt that the situation of not having those preparations in order wasn't the issue - just whether Euthanasia is right or wrong. I just added that extra bit because it's something that came across my mind as I was typing. Although it is related and definitely of importance if Euthanasia were legalised, it is not the major concern at the moment.

On the other hand, I think compulsory Euthanasia is a bad idea. It's a whole playing God thing and we have that enough with death penalty, etc, where it is "deserved" but if you're just killing people because they're old or have no hope of recovery (says the doctor) then that's some major moral and ethic violations right there. Doctors are only people, they make so many mistakes and many times they tell people they can never walk again or miss a cancerous tumour in an X-Ray (both have happened to people close to me) yet the person gets up and walks again or tells the doctor "no there is definitely something there" and turn out to be right. Another person should not be the judge of another's life (unless prior agreements were made, to save myself from contradicting myself).
 
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DeletedUser

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You could even roll it out as some sort of hospital health care plan or as a section in your Will to make it pseudo-compulsory to combat that situation as maybe even some advertising (although that'd be quite grim "make preparations to get your family members to pull the plug, because you might become a vegetable tomorrow!").

All in all, I felt that the situation of not having those preparations in order wasn't the issue - just whether Euthanasia is right or wrong. I just added that extra bit because it's something that came across my mind as I was typing. Although it is related and definitely of importance if Euthanasia were legalised, it is not the major concern at the moment.

You're quite right, the thread is regarding whether euthanasia is right or wrong, not the minor details.

Perhaps some sort of card, similar to an organ donation/blood donor card, which certifies that you wish to be removed from life support if ever you enter into such a vegetative state. Would be an amusing, if rather sombre, item to own.


On the other hand, I think compulsory Euthanasia is a bad idea. It's a whole playing God thing and we have that enough with death penalty, etc, where it is "deserved" but if you're just killing people because they're old or have no hope of recovery (says the doctor) then that's some major moral and ethic violations right there. Doctors are only people, they make so many mistakes and many times they tell people they can never walk again or miss a cancerous tumour in an X-Ray (both have happened to people close to me).

True again, with the death penalty reference. For compulsory euthanasia to ever be an option, someone would have to be given the power to decide whether other people live or die. Nobody should ever be given that option, whether they're a doctor, a politician or anyone else.
 

DeletedUser

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Actually, I swear that was something that came up in a debate I heard about Euthanasia before and it was one way they would identify themselves as being open to Euthanasia.
 

DeletedUser345

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That person who stays at home most of the time may contribute too, in their own way. For example, someone may spend most of their time at home because they work from home, and work full-time. Would they be considered for compulsory euthanasia, just because they do not run community clubs?

The only time that arguement works for a severly disabled person and the severe disablement could effect them from working so again those that do work and contribute its fine.
 

DeletedUser

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The only time that arguement works for a severly disabled person and the severe disablement could effect them from working so again those that do work and contribute its fine.

I don't understand, are you saying that only a severely disabled person can work from home? Or only a severely disabled person would be allowed to work from home without being euthanised?
 

DeletedUser

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But their familys should realise that they are either going to go very soon anyway, that it is good for the person themselves (in some cases) or that it is neccessary for soceity as a whole. Also people would adapt perhaps there might eb some fuss at the beginning but after a year people would come to accept it and treat it as the norm.


I know they should, but something tells me they wouldn't, and I don't blame them for that. They would feel like their relative had been taken away from them, where as if they die naturally is feels more... natural.
 

DeletedUser

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So if I consider your contributions to society to be meaningless and negligible in comparison to John Bedside over there, you would be eligible for compulsory Euthanasia?

Does that mean all the dole-bludgers should be Euthanised because they're living off tax payer money and not contributing constructively?

I know they should, but something tells me they wouldn't, and I don't blame them for that. They would feel like their relative had been taken away from them, where as if they die naturally is feels more... natural.

Any kind of death is natural. Every possible way to die is due to nature - whether it be our bodies biologically breaking down, the human nature of a troubled individual to take another's life, survival of the fittest or the sun exploding. They are all 'natural' deaths in the greater scheme of things.
 

DeletedUser345

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I don't understand, are you saying that only a severely disabled person can work from home? Or only a severely disabled person would be allowed to work from home without being euthanised?

Pretty much both, the second being if the severly disabled person is working from home and contributing to society/country then yes they should be kept alive.

I know they should, but something tells me they wouldn't, and I don't blame them for that. They would feel like their relative had been taken away from them, where as if they die naturally is feels more... natural.

Perhaps at first but people would get used to the idea and it wouldnt feel strange at all, a bit like how everyone thought that fertility treatment when it was first used was horrific now it is accpeted practice.

So if I consider your contributions to society to be meaningless and negligible in comparison to John Bedside over there, you would be eligible for compulsory Euthanasia?

Does that mean all the dole-bludgers should be Euthanised because they're living off tax payer money and not contributing constructively?

You have missed the bit about the categories of people we are discussing i.e. over 70s, severly disabled and long-term hospital care.
 
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DeletedUser

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Pretty much both, the second being if the severly disabled person is working from home and contributing to society/country then yes they should be kept alive.

Well, I'd have to disagree with you as far as only a disabled person being able to work from home [without being euthanised], being a person who has worked from home for several years.. I like to think I contribute to society just fine. I make sizeable donations to charity, I pay my taxes, I vote, etc..
 

DeletedUser345

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Well, I'd have to disagree with you as far as only a disabled person being able to work from home [without being euthanised], being a person who has worked from home for several years.. I like to think I contribute to society just fine. I make sizeable donations to charity, I pay my taxes, I vote, etc..

Same as to what i replied to Asth i was talking about our three categories of people and that out of those only the severly disabled could work from home in some cases. Sorry ofr the confusion.
 

DeletedUser

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Same as to what i replied to Asth i was talking about our three categories of people and that out of those only the severly disabled could work from home in some cases. Sorry ofr the confusion.

But as a person who was not severely disabled when starting working from home, I would be euthanised under those criteria, yes?
 

DeletedUser345

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But as a person who was not severely disabled when starting working from home, I would be euthanised under those criteria, yes?

No. This working from home basis in contributing to soceity is only relevant to those who are severely disabled, over 70 or in long-term hospital care as we were discussing.
 

DeletedUser

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No. This working from home basis in contributing to soceity is only relevant to those who are severely disabled, over 70 or in long-term hospital care as we were discussing.

Ah, I see what you mean. I'm just confusing myself. :supermad:
 

DeletedUser

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You have missed the bit about the categories of people we are discussing i.e. over 70s, severly disabled and long-term hospital care.

Not really, I just don't figure it to be a deciding factor. If you're a vegetable, you're a vegetable. Your state and/or recovery isn't dependant on your age or any other factors. Not to mention that a lot of disabled people are under 70.

I assume you just picked an arbitrary age for the cut-off requirement, but as I just explained, age shouldn't be a deciding factor.
 
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