Inactive Topic Fortress city conversions

DeletedUser

Guest
Please scroll down to see a rewrite of the idea. It contains all of the new features that have been talked about so far. It is also formatted more carefully.

Original version-
Idea:
To have the ability to convert a newly conquered city into a fortress.

Details:
After you conquer a city and view its city overview you will see a window pop up that will say "Would you like to build a fortress on this newly conquered territory?''.

If you choose 'No' then the window will go away and the city's buildings and other features will stay the same.

If you choose 'Yes' then the city will automatically enter a sequence that takes 48 hours to complete. The finished product will be a city that does not have any pretty looking buildings or anything fancy.
This will be your fortress.

The fortress has:
1. A barracks that can build the usual unit types, faster than usual. Level 15.
2. A harbour that can build the usual ships, faster than usual. Level 15.
3. A city wall that starts on level 20 and can go up to 40.
4. A cave that starts on 10.
5. A farm that can get to a total of 5000 free pop.

All military researches are already unlocked (no academy needed).

The catches:
1. You cannot conquer from this fortress.
2. You don't get as many points.



EDIT:

Rewritten idea-


Proposal:
To have the ability to convert newly conquered cities into fortresses that are more specifically designed for war.

Have you Checked the 'Do not suggest list/previously suggested ideas' in the 'Archive'
Yes, hasn’t come up.

Reason:
It would be good to have a means to wreak war on a larger scale.

Details:
After you conquer a city you are given the option to convert the city into a fortress.
If you choose ‘Yes’ then the city will begin a sequence that will last 48 hours. After the conversion is complete you will be left with a city build for the one purpose of war.

The city will only have the basic military needs:
A barracks, starts on level 15.
A harbour, starts on level 15.
A city wall, starts on 20 but can go up to 32. (Reason will be explained)
A cave, starts on 10.
A farm, can reach a total of 5000 free population when no troops have been built and the building are as they were when they started.
The needed resource production infrastructure.

You cannot conquer from the fortress and it does not give you as many points as a normal city could. The main military researches will be pre-unlocked.

Now for the explanation of the city wall’s insanely high level:
Simple, you can only make offensive units in the city. This balances out the spectrum. The wall would give the defenders offensive units the means to match an enemy attack force evenly.

I tested in the simulator the occurrance that a fort attacked another. The defensive fort had a 30 wall and the same troops numbers as the attacker. The defender was able to hold the city successfully, but only just. So the balance is perfect there.

The fortress owner will have to sacrifice some of their available population spaces to enhance their wall, unit production and resource production.


A fortress uses up 2 culture levels. This is to counter-balance the fact that a player could conquer even a 500 point city and be producing units within 48 hours.

You may only have 4 forts. That way you can have some trong attack power on your north, south ,east and west frontiers.

Visual Aids:
None available.

Balance:
The balance is still a little bit sketchy and needs to be discussed.

Abuse Prevention:
I don’t think anyone would be able to cheat this system.

Summary:
You should be able to change your fort back into a city, what does everyone think the terms of that should be? Should you only be able to do it only when you have met a minimum time span.
Another possibilty is that you could only do it after reaching a certain number of BP attained from that city.
Just ideas, what are your thoughts?
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
I think it would be too unbalanced, but, the ability not to conquer really balances that, I think its not that bad of an idea.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
this would be quite a big change, but the idea does have potential...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
nice idea...perhaps make the fortress cost resources, as well
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Is there any way to change your city if you do not wish it to be a fortress any longer?
Do you need to pay additional resources for the costs of pretty much having everything required for troop production?
What defines a research as being 'military'. Everything in there can help warfare in one way or another.
Can it produce both offensive and defensive units? [Clarification]
A level 40 wall? Are you serious?
Will it produce less resources? [No resources? Clarification]
Will it have a temple / produce favour? [Clarification]
Will it be able to build Myth units?
Points mean nothing, it is a moot con of your idea.
I'm a bit hesitant on it being able to spy, in additional to all the other benefits.
And my biggest concern: Is there anything to stop me conquering a 500 point city and then 48 hours later it being fully capable of pumping out troops. That is HUGE and wouldn't encourage conquering larger players when you could just conquer a small city, wait 2 days and come out with faster barracks, faster harbour and more troops. Perhaps also incorporate some sort of payment system, where you actually have to spend resources to get those max level buildings and free researches.

All that being said, it does have potential. I think if it is tweaked a bit it could be good but I think it might change gameplay too much to be implemented.
 

DeletedUser18132

Guest
And will it have a 40 level wall and a tower? Then attacking that city would be like sinking your own ships and troops.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I do like your idea but its going to change the whole game play,i think the current game play is good enough. but i really do like your idea:D
 

DeletedUser

Guest
hmmm When I read the title I was prepared for another noob thread.
But the idea does have potential, its balanced out - Except the part of the level 40 wall, that is a sick joke. But its an interesting idea. Although Greeks didn´t have that kind of fortresses.

one more thing about the idea - I guess you like playing Medieval Total War II, right?

Edit: Now that I think about it, i have thought of something to add, perhaps not only the fortress cannot serve as a city to conquer from, but also all the troops (land and sea) built there can only be offensive units.
That way the higher wall is justified, because its to help protect your slingers and Ponies.
Another thing gained from that change is that such cities cannot be used to mass produce swords, making them invulnerable, fortress would be used to mass produce land nukes, which adds more violence to tha game and puts turtle players in a tight position, because the defender won´t have such a big upper hand anymore, as the attackers can now produce more men to bring turtles down.
That does not mean fortress cannot be defended, you can send support of swords, archers etc to them from any of your cities, making the fortress invulnerable BUT if its filled with supporting units from other cities, then it means those other cities are vulnerable and empty, thus balancing the fact that the fortress is impenetrable when stacked.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
I think that all that GreatKhan just noted would do great with my idea.

Just to explain the 40 wall thing, I was thinking that if if would be attacked by other fortresses it would be balanced out because of the amount of attack troops that could be sent.

As for some of Asth's questions:
I guess that you should be able to change the fortress back into a city.
No, it does not produce favour or myth units.
Being able to conquer a 500 point city and then be pumping out troops 48 hours later is a bit of a problem so maybe it should be that the city has to have a certain minimum point level or that you have to give up say, 10 culture points or more for the conversion.

Oppinions?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I don't think it's that bad of an idea. A point restriction on the city would be nice so you don't have people conquering lower level cities and converting them into power-houses.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
While the idea sounds cool I have to say that in it's current form this is way overpowered. 5000 farm space? No one sees how this is completely imbalanced towards normal cities? Not only that but faster troops production as well?
And the downsides really aren't harsh at all. Less then half of my cities are conquest capable as it is so that restriction doesn't harm me in the slightest.
You also say that fortresses give a low amount of points? That's just another reason for people on morale worlds to get as many as possible.
Lack of a temple and as such favor production is a little bit annoying but can be dealt with by having a few normal cities so that your fortress still gets all the god benefits.

If this were implemented I would transform 7 out of 10 of my cities into fortresses and normal cities would be come virtually useless. They'd just be CS havens and favor producing facilities. As such, no matter how cool the idea, it's a no from me.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Lastwish said:
While the idea sounds cool I have to say that in it's current form this is way overpowered. 5000 farm space? No one sees how this is completely imbalanced towards normal cities? Not only that but faster troops production as well?
And the downsides really aren't harsh at all. Less then half of my cities are conquest capable as it is so that restriction doesn't harm me in the slightest.
You also say that fortresses give a low amount of points? That's just another reason for people on morale worlds to get as many as possible.
Lack of a temple and as such favor production is a little bit annoying but can be dealt with by having a few normal cities so that your fortress still gets all the god benefits.

If this were implemented I would transform 7 out of 10 of my cities into fortresses and normal cities would be come virtually useless. They'd just be CS havens and favor producing facilities. As such, no matter how cool the idea, it's a no from me.
Click to expand...

Do you have any thoughts on how to make the idea more to your liking?
Constructive criticism is greatly appreciated.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
having premium feature isnt devastating enough. now have a city with the ability to make 500 LS in a single nuke..

as much potential as this idea may have its abusive and over powered
 

DeletedUser

Guest
hmm need to be carefull when editing the original idea, because some additions are not planned carefuly, for example, 50 culture points is to much, and it would umbalance it more, because it would only make forts available to big players, making them even more stronger than what they are.

Wall level 40 is still too much even after my add on, it should be maxed at 30-33 -
check out the way defensive % increases with each wall level paying special attention to the last levels.

No favor and myth production, no defensive soldier production, resource mines maxed at level 15 or around that
 

DeletedUser441

Guest
not too keen on the level 40 wall and 5000 farm space but other than that is a pretty good idea :D
 

DeletedUser

Guest
i have a problem with this

Reason: It would be good to have a means to wreak war on a larger scale.
Click to expand...

what do you mean a larger scale? when u get 15+ citys making only lightships and have 10 or so citys with land offensive builds.. is it not large scale enough? this is easy to balance at 40+ citys

now notice the award Bread and Games. the final award offered level 150

when u reach numbers so high u can have 100 citys preping for war reasons ONLY while keeping 50 maybe even ALOT less for defensive purposes is it not large scare enough? for wreaking havoc and war?

and this is on a solo image

u can replicate the same thing using 10 to 20 players with 10 to 20 city's each just having a minimal of 5 to 10 city's each prepped for war

is it not large scale enough?

edit:
daniel1 said:
not too keen on the level 40 wall and 5000 farm space but other than that is a pretty good idea :D
Click to expand...

sorry no its a bad idea.

Simple, you can only make offensive units in the city. This balances out the spectrum. The wall would give the defenders offensive units the means to match an enemy attack force evenly.
Click to expand...

theres a few more problems again. there exist a few techniques to eat at attacking forces without losses such as dodging and city militia
the defender has so many advantages already do we need an offensive force to match the strengths of a proper defence build? i believe not.

already with city wall lvl 25 and the great tower with a land locked defense specialized it requires upto 3 full citys to defeat (without catapults) this doesnt count phalanx or battering ram, desire or great power, premium or regular, bad luck or good luck, morale or no morale.

already many players can complain and end up building like a turtle which in turn makes the offender complain cause then it requires more effort and vice versa also to consider are alliances (group efforts) this can make a player stay awake non stop for days without an end in sight. so now if i can demolish proper defensive builds with greater ease this causes more problems. on a larger scale

also have u considered what happens if the fortresses are not uses for producing land units period. just lightships only add 5 fortresses = 2500 lightships?

as much as i like it and want it, its destroying the overall game concept and balance

the key to winning wars is in group efforts and player elimination. its not enough to conquer 1 city, you need to remove ALL citys from the player so they quit.

with these fortresses it can be achieved much faster with lesser effort. meaning more players will end up being eliminated faster. and even though 90% (of those eliminated) may not matter to innogames u will eventually be taking out paying customers (which are paying to keep our servers online) theres a reason why citys have limitations, its to help expand and i feel this fortress is just too overpowered for the regular/casual players

final edit:
maybe a true balance to this overpower is a limit of citys that can be made fortresses, like 1 fortress per player.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Magical1ne said:
final edit:
maybe a true balance to this overpower is a limit of citys that can be made fortresses, like 1 fortress per player.
Click to expand...
i'm still not really sold one way or the other on this, but i think this idea of limiting the # of fortresses per player (whether it be 1 or 3 or whatever) is a very good one.
 
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