DeletedUser6029
Guest
Where do you come up with this stuff...for starters the OP was encompassing all of history as well as the current. Secondly, what part of my post was not current? I think you are purposely trolling.
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Where do you come up with this stuff...for starters the OP was encompassing all of history as well as the current. Secondly, what part of my post was not current? I think you are purposely trolling.
DeletedUser
Guest
i think you are making this into an argument instead of discussion.
whatever you said about religion should be in past. You said that religion promotes good deeds. I agree with that. But instead of promotes, it should be promoted. The religion today is nothing but a weapon for the so called holy men to stir up hatred towards other religion and cause unrest. see all over the world. thats what is happening now. some religions just focus on world dominance. you kow whats written in some of the holy scriptures? " Those who donot follow ______ and donot pray ______ should be killed immediately by the order of _______ as they will direct others along with them to the paths of hell". is that what you want, by promoting religion?
whatever you said about religion should be in past. You said that religion promotes good deeds. I agree with that. But instead of promotes, it should be promoted. The religion today is nothing but a weapon for the so called holy men to stir up hatred towards other religion and cause unrest. see all over the world. thats what is happening now. some religions just focus on world dominance. you kow whats written in some of the holy scriptures? " Those who donot follow ______ and donot pray ______ should be killed immediately by the order of _______ as they will direct others along with them to the paths of hell". is that what you want, by promoting religion?
DeletedUser31989
Guest
I feel that as a man with very strong views on this subject, i would like to have my say.
To start i would consider my self an anti-thiest, meaning that not only do i not believe in any form of religion, i actually dislike it and consider it to be one of the greatest unnecessary evils in this world.
My beliefs come from years of research by some of the greatest minds this world has ever produced, the amount of evidence in the favor of science over creationism is staggering, however we are treated with less respect and more disdain than any other group of people in society. we are told we must respect the beliefs of religious people in order not to offend, yet i find myself offended every day of my life when i see, hear and read about the atrocities committed in the name of religion, where is the respect for my beliefs?
Also, i would like to add that religion has never had an influence over my life, my parents did not teach me what to think, they taught me how to think, yet i am a man who treats people well and who many would consider an upstanding member of our society.
The point i make is that religion cannot take credit for good deeds.
Many religious people would probably view me as an immoral man for how i feel, however i unlike many don't hate, i don't discriminate, i don't hurt people because they are different, i treat people how i would like to be treated.
My final point is that although i dislike religion, i don't dislike the religious, i think the vast majority are good people and as long as they treat people kindly regardless of who they are or what they may choose to do with their life then so be it. I have a son, and i will leave decisions like that up to him, if he believes in a higher power i will support him 100% but i will not indoctrinate him into my beliefs or anybody elses, and anyone that takes away the free thought of their children should look at their parenting ability
... Rant end
To start i would consider my self an anti-thiest, meaning that not only do i not believe in any form of religion, i actually dislike it and consider it to be one of the greatest unnecessary evils in this world.
My beliefs come from years of research by some of the greatest minds this world has ever produced, the amount of evidence in the favor of science over creationism is staggering, however we are treated with less respect and more disdain than any other group of people in society. we are told we must respect the beliefs of religious people in order not to offend, yet i find myself offended every day of my life when i see, hear and read about the atrocities committed in the name of religion, where is the respect for my beliefs?
Also, i would like to add that religion has never had an influence over my life, my parents did not teach me what to think, they taught me how to think, yet i am a man who treats people well and who many would consider an upstanding member of our society.
The point i make is that religion cannot take credit for good deeds.
Many religious people would probably view me as an immoral man for how i feel, however i unlike many don't hate, i don't discriminate, i don't hurt people because they are different, i treat people how i would like to be treated.
My final point is that although i dislike religion, i don't dislike the religious, i think the vast majority are good people and as long as they treat people kindly regardless of who they are or what they may choose to do with their life then so be it. I have a son, and i will leave decisions like that up to him, if he believes in a higher power i will support him 100% but i will not indoctrinate him into my beliefs or anybody elses, and anyone that takes away the free thought of their children should look at their parenting ability
... Rant end
DeletedUser6029
Guest
You won't stay on topic, which is annoying. Nor will you provide any back up for your wild assumptions.
But secondly.....your argument is limited to what? two, maybe three religions? Really?
How about Buddhism, Paganism, Baha'i? That is just three, but there are so many more that your stereotyping doesn't subscribe to.
And thirdly you are intent on your purpose to make this about religion as far as is RELIGION PROPER, right or wrong, and not about the good or bad it has done for society as a whole.
The truth is, as I have repeated over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.........
it isn't the religion that is bad, it is the people that twist the religion. The belief in heaven and hell has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic at hand. Zilch, zero...so keep trying.
I have shown you one example of the care at hospitals that are religious backed. Not only did you not come back with a rebuttal, but you ignored it all together. Really?
I can keep going on for the good that religion has done..the positive input it has given to society, but I have a feeling it won't even be acknowledged by you.
Nobody has given any information, links, proof, ideas etc etc about where morality came from other than the few people who said that it came from a religion.....Is it that people are afraid of the topic? Or just afraid of the forum?
I will say, I miss Hellstromm...that buckethead was my favorite nemesis ever! He provided links and made me do my homework!
DeletedUser
Guest
how can you say that when i gave you writing of some of the religious scriptures? religion sometimes promote evil.
secondly, you just agreed that religion as a whole is not bad, but the people twist it. thats what you said right? let me ask you something, if religion can be twisted so easily by cunning men, what good can it do in present?? it is more like some writing with several loop holes. i will tell you where you are wrong along with proof though.
i said that religion doesnot evolve with mankind - proof - in several religions there are still 7 planets(sun and moon is included in planets) whereas 10 are actually proven to be planets. Once a scientist named galileo suggested that earth revolves around the sun which was against the holy books data. he was opposed and imprisoned for that. so who is wrong, religion or men who believed in religion?? in my opinion both.
and if this proof is not satisfying you then i am sorry.
DeletedUser
Guest
You can add to all the above information that Religion forms a really big contradictory with science. In the bible it is said the earth is a few thousand years old as for scientific experiments show the earth is significantly older. Also in religion, everything that seems unknown, is considered as a God. For example the Pharaohs, when they first saw the sun, they thought it's the God of Sun called Ra. Also people from ancient Greece made some Gods like Zeus, and Poseidon, Hera(Goddess of love), Hades(God of Demons (or at least something diabolic)).
Do you believe that with all the photos and videos, muslims still don't believe that man has stepped on the moon ?? Religion makes you really retarded when you just believe what it says without questioning it, while questioning everything is the key basic element needed in thinking in science.
Also in muslim Quran it is said that every single muslim, has to defend his religion in any way he can, and if he does -even if he dies- God will "save a place for him in paradise". This is what caused Turkish people to participate in the World War I. It is also the reason why there exists terrorism. This is why the twin towers were destroyed by terrorists in 9/11 (God lay mercy on the soul of the victims in that day) As for Christianity, it has made people think for a thousand years that the sun turns around the earth.(What actually happened is what is said in the bible a guy who had his faith really strong in God was preaching around and people started mocking him and disagreeing in disbelief so he held the sun for three days in its position as in three days(there was always daylight in those three days) to prove that he can do anything in the power of God so scientists at that time thought that the sun has to be orbiting around the earth otherwise that guy couldn't have frozen it in place) And it also lead people to think that Galileo Galilee was crazy when he said the earth was round not flat.(I apologize if i said something wrong included in my last information, i can'y remember whether people thought Galileo was crazy because he said the earth was flat or the earth orbits the sun, i am sorry but it's one of those things and if anyone corrects my information, well thank you
)
But religion isn't the main thing to blame, well it is partially but it is also a major part of the people who just ruin the sanctity of religion. You can't imagine how many people argue about this on Facebok(mis-spelled because i don't want to name a registered trademark) Many people there just keep on fighting for their religion, when they don't even follow their rules. They say start by mocking muslims and their rule of not eating bacon, neither drinking beer, and their terrorism and the way they argue back is just so provocative and so annoying to see before your eyes everyday to see people hating each other and actually saying hunderds of swear words even if their religion disallows them, and all the hate is because people from one religion want to show their religion as the best, which is really sickening.
If anyone of you readers sees this and thinks he is slightly similar to my example of hating because of religion, please don't be embarrassed, but evaluate yourself, think about your opinions and if you do this religion hating anywhere, please consider stopping it, literally for the sake of our society.
After all, Christians, Muslims and Jews are all following the same God. So they should be supporting each other instead of doing what they are currently doing.
I hope i made anyone aware of this situation, because if we keep going that way, we will be destroying ourselves.
EDIT: I also want to add that, religion always carries on its traditions to future generations while society,technology, intelligence,etc all are evolving, which makes religion far behind. I mean, in Christianity, we are repeating the same things that have been done 2000 years ago !!! And within 2000 years of evolving, the gap between nowadays life and religion is really wide. I myself am Christian, but my mind has its roots in science. And the contradiction between religion and science is what's separating people into, a part following religion's claims, and a part questioning everything in order to get definite knowledge.
Do you believe that with all the photos and videos, muslims still don't believe that man has stepped on the moon ?? Religion makes you really retarded when you just believe what it says without questioning it, while questioning everything is the key basic element needed in thinking in science.
Also in muslim Quran it is said that every single muslim, has to defend his religion in any way he can, and if he does -even if he dies- God will "save a place for him in paradise". This is what caused Turkish people to participate in the World War I. It is also the reason why there exists terrorism. This is why the twin towers were destroyed by terrorists in 9/11 (God lay mercy on the soul of the victims in that day) As for Christianity, it has made people think for a thousand years that the sun turns around the earth.(What actually happened is what is said in the bible a guy who had his faith really strong in God was preaching around and people started mocking him and disagreeing in disbelief so he held the sun for three days in its position as in three days(there was always daylight in those three days) to prove that he can do anything in the power of God so scientists at that time thought that the sun has to be orbiting around the earth otherwise that guy couldn't have frozen it in place) And it also lead people to think that Galileo Galilee was crazy when he said the earth was round not flat.(I apologize if i said something wrong included in my last information, i can'y remember whether people thought Galileo was crazy because he said the earth was flat or the earth orbits the sun, i am sorry but it's one of those things and if anyone corrects my information, well thank you
)But religion isn't the main thing to blame, well it is partially but it is also a major part of the people who just ruin the sanctity of religion. You can't imagine how many people argue about this on Facebok(mis-spelled because i don't want to name a registered trademark) Many people there just keep on fighting for their religion, when they don't even follow their rules. They say start by mocking muslims and their rule of not eating bacon, neither drinking beer, and their terrorism and the way they argue back is just so provocative and so annoying to see before your eyes everyday to see people hating each other and actually saying hunderds of swear words even if their religion disallows them, and all the hate is because people from one religion want to show their religion as the best, which is really sickening.
If anyone of you readers sees this and thinks he is slightly similar to my example of hating because of religion, please don't be embarrassed, but evaluate yourself, think about your opinions and if you do this religion hating anywhere, please consider stopping it, literally for the sake of our society.
After all, Christians, Muslims and Jews are all following the same God. So they should be supporting each other instead of doing what they are currently doing.
I hope i made anyone aware of this situation, because if we keep going that way, we will be destroying ourselves.
EDIT: I also want to add that, religion always carries on its traditions to future generations while society,technology, intelligence,etc all are evolving, which makes religion far behind. I mean, in Christianity, we are repeating the same things that have been done 2000 years ago !!! And within 2000 years of evolving, the gap between nowadays life and religion is really wide. I myself am Christian, but my mind has its roots in science. And the contradiction between religion and science is what's separating people into, a part following religion's claims, and a part questioning everything in order to get definite knowledge.
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DeletedUser
Guest
precisely. i didnt want to name any particular religion but the true slim shady is 100% correct. religion doesnt evolve along with technology or science. that is the reason i say that religion is better gone.
DeletedUser6029
Guest
You get the mods to OK that bunny trail and AGAIN, I will happily dispute you.
hmmmm, ironic for one of your positions...your logic would then equate to Governments have done no good either. No positive influence? Why? Some governments are evil. Or to do deeper, some politicians are evil which essentially means that the governments are evil because it allows for people to twist its purpose? Communist Russia, under Lenin was not an evil concept...the idea was great, valid, and upstanding...here comes Stalin...and corrupted it. Are you saying that Communism (the idea) is evil and has no merit? That it has no value? That it did not in any way shape or form provide positive influence?
I am still waiting, not for proof, but at least some back up...I am going to die from asphyxiation though it seems from holding my breath. And I am not limiting this conversation to a few views of religion. That is not what the OT asked. Truth is, modern medical science, a lot of it comes from old religious practices. The ancient Chinese for example have brought about a ton of positive influences in the medical industry. You are the one who is limiting "religion" as a whole to just a few. And then say it is on purpose? Now tell me, what sense does THAT logic make?
Now on to your "proof" no, the holy book for "christianity", the bible, says no such thing. So try again. There are many theories on how the bible relates to science. What you are in fact witnessing in that example is the narrow mindedness of man trying to understand something beyond them. And you also have to take into account, at the time these dogma's were decided, their information about science was rather limited.
But mostly for the sake of argument, get off of Christianity, it is not the only religion in the world. Try the old Japanese, Chinese, and or Roman religions on for a bit. Makes your argument a bit more valid and well rounded.
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DeletedUser
Guest
dot get started with the communism vs democracy. perhaps we can have that debate in new thread. as of now, if you say that the laws of certain countries are evil, i agree. take saudi arabia for instance. you cannot build a church or a temple or monastries in there. its against law. and that law is based on religion. but we dont need to get into that.
you say lots of medical treatments were given by religion in ancient period. thats true. but how can you relate it to religion?? in india, ayurveda was discovered like thousands of years ago. that true. they could even do a heart surgery those days. there is yoga too. but let me tell you that religion is even older. religion didnot give those to humankind.
as for bible, i havent read it. but i would like to know who opposed galileo in italy?
you say lots of medical treatments were given by religion in ancient period. thats true. but how can you relate it to religion?? in india, ayurveda was discovered like thousands of years ago. that true. they could even do a heart surgery those days. there is yoga too. but let me tell you that religion is even older. religion didnot give those to humankind.
as for bible, i havent read it. but i would like to know who opposed galileo in italy?
DeletedUser6029
Guest
Huh? Seriously? And where did you get this from? All I am doing is pointing out the flaw in your logic, but using a parallel example.
ok, lets use Yoga as an example. The argument is not how old religion is, we have already established it has been around since the beginning of time. The fact is as will accupuncture, yoga, meditation, herbal therapy, massage, etc etc...all of these things CAME from religion. So in essence, religious practices, did in fact given these things to humankind....
Well I have read it, a few times, over and over and over...I have ripped up the greek, latin, german translations to name a few, I have attempted to disect it from dogma to actual content and intent...so next time you want to try and tangle with me using a book I happen to have read and studied, I suggest you try reading it first. I have no problems pawning you.
DeletedUser
Guest
when i said about evil laws, i said it because most of the evil laws are also based on religion. you know what is the law of saudi arabia?
what is flaw in my logic by the way?? whatever you say, there in no evidence to back up your points. can you prove that medical science or herbs whatever have go anything to do with religion??
moreover how do you explain the imprisonment of galileo?? you havent actually said a word about it. i dont think in 1400 AD there was any other religion in italy except one. and you know which one right? and history says that he was opposed by holy prophets.
what is flaw in my logic by the way?? whatever you say, there in no evidence to back up your points. can you prove that medical science or herbs whatever have go anything to do with religion??
moreover how do you explain the imprisonment of galileo?? you havent actually said a word about it. i dont think in 1400 AD there was any other religion in italy except one. and you know which one right? and history says that he was opposed by holy prophets.
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DeletedUser6029
Guest
As are most of the good laws. You know, for example, socialism is in the bible, so your welfare reforms in the USA, are biblical...pretty decent for a nasty religion don't you think? But this question has nothing to do with the influence good or bad on mankind. Why? Because there is always two sides, so if you only look at the bad and not look at the good, it is a lopsided scale....try again.
I don't know why I am wasting my time educating you on a subject that is actually rather common knowledge, if one bothered to look.
But because I feel froggy......I will offer you something I have off the top of my head because I happen to have it for another reason:
Chinese influence on modern medicine
What do I care about the imprisonment of galileo? Nobody claimed religion is perfect, actually, I think it has been repeatedly stressed it is not. But to your point, Dogma states that gays are an abomination, something that when you actually look, and start looking at context, translation, timing, author, etc, the bible says no such thing. Dogma also states that in order to be married, you have to be married in a church in some ceremony, but a religious leader, or you are not married, and are living in sin, as it were...again, when you look at the bible, it says nothing of the sort....just because the Galileo fought against the church, and the church resisted, doesn't make a hill of beans. Calvin did the same thing. your point?
Any way you slice it, religion of some sort has influence every aspect of modern society...both good and bad, mostly good.
DeletedUser
Guest
This is a fine example of people not caring enough to construct their own arguments or even read the actual posts, yet caring enough to click a button on a poll.
DeletedUser
Guest
I clicked that religion is equally productive and destructive. I believe it hurts many and helps many.
DeletedUser6029
Guest
DeletedUser
Guest
DeletedUser6029
Guest
Undecided voter?
Yeah, considering my argument, I'd say THAT IS EXACTLY IT
nah, I figure what does a poll prove in a debate? It isn't as if those voting have actually put much towards the debate? They are voting out their pie hole.....I do this for fun.
DeletedUser
Guest
Why because the voters in the poll don't agree with your opinion? Just because they haven't constructed an argument on here doesn't mean they haven't thought about it before and made up their mind.
DeletedUser
Guest
just check the following link. thats all i will say.
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-fatwa-factory-no-yoga-insurance-veena-malik-tv/20121205.htm
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-fatwa-factory-no-yoga-insurance-veena-malik-tv/20121205.htm
DeletedUser
Guest
My opinion is that it is impossible to determine whether or not religion has had a destructive or productive impact on society. It doesn't matter what "you believe", it's simply not justifiable either way... The "what-if" and "I think therefore it is right" arguments that you have been presenting hold absolutely not grounds in a debate. If the people voting had actually read the posts included in this thread rather than vote for the side in favor of the giant Internet Anti-theist Circlejerk, maybe the results would have turned out differently.
Honestly, these people are just as bad as the many conservatives who vote based on what some talk-show host has to say.
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